Everyone Has A Story to Tell & How A Ghostwriter Can Help You Tell It with Sara Gorry

Have you ever wanted to write a book but struggle to get your thoughts onto paper? Sara Gorry shares how a ghostwriter can help you!

Have you ever wanted to write a book but struggle to get your thoughts onto paper? In today’s episode Sara Gorry shares how a ghostwriter can help you tell the story that you have in your heart! She shares how ghostwriting can help you achieve your dream of becoming an author with a little bit of support in just 3-4 months!

In this episode we chat about:

Sara’s move to and how she began her journey to entrepreneurship.

Taking a risk on yourself and your passion.

Investing in your dreams.

What a ghostwriter does and what services they can offer you.

The ethics around ghostwriting.

Sara’s experience working with Paula and her team in The Courage Blueprint.

And so much more!

Sara Gorry is a ghost writer for faith-based coaches and entrepreneurs. She helps them write their memoirs, self-help, and business books. Born in the US, but currently living in the UK, Sara takes her natural gift for writing and storytelling, and offers it to her clients so they can tell the story that lives in their hearts, without getting bogged down in the structure and details. Sara helps you avoid the overwhelm in writing your next book and believes we all have a story to tell!

Connect with Sara!





(03:10) Sara shares the story of her move to the UK to be with her touring musician husband and how she began her journey to entrepreneurship after feeling unsettled by the “box” of a 9-5 and earned vacation time.

(06:06) Dealing with time zones and long distance love.

(06:30) Taking an exciting risk on yourself and your passion!

(07:45) Adjusting to life in a new country, why Sara invested in her first copy-writing course and how it led her to ghostwriting.

(10:25) Niching down by doing!

(11:30) What ghostwriting is and can be.

(13:01) Learning to write in someone else’s voice.

(13:52) Where “Tell Your Story with Sara Gorry” began.

(16:45) The ethics around ghostwriting.

(17:30) How a ghost writer can support those who are verbal processors.

(25:48) What happens after the ghost writing process.

(28:34) Choosing the right fit clients.

(30:16) Sara shares her experience working with Paula and her team in The Courage Blueprint.



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Sara Gorry, Paula Shepherd

Paula Shepherd 00:01

Hi, I'm Paula shepherd. I went to college to get a good job and make a lot of money. Back then, no one talked about doing what you love. And while I successfully climbed the corporate ladder, I felt like there was something missing. So I left the seemingly comfortable corporate world at 40 years old for the freedom of full time entrepreneurship. Today, I get to help ambitious women go from entrepreneur to confident CEO of their lives and businesses. I created this podcast to share what I've learned with you to make your journey just a little easier, and to connect you with other incredible business owners who took a chance on themselves and who they are becoming. So whether you're just getting started, are all in for just want to hear a friendly voice. Come on in and sit with us. Now, let's dive in. Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of the competence Sessions. Today I have with me, Sarah Gauri, she helps faith based coaches and entrepreneurs write their memoirs, self help, and business books. As a ghostwriter. She's originally from the US, but she recently moved to the UK to be with her Scottish Hubby, who is her absolute biggest supporter. And as long as she could remember, people have been coming to her asking her, what should I write? How should I word this? We write my paper for me, I bet you got a lot of that in high school. And the last one was her sister. But that's okay. I'm sure that was in high school. So writing is how she best expresses herself, which is important because as a verbal processor, for me, writing isn't always the best way that I express myself. So thank goodness, we have people like Sarah, she loves to help people who have a story in their heart, but get bogged down with writing it down. Welcome to the confidence session, Sarah,

Sara Gorry 02:03


Paula Shepherd 02:05

I'm so excited to have you here. Now we were talking before we started about ways to kind of pass energy through and how I jog around my kitchen island and how you were just having a dance party and your Husband Husband studio. And you know, we're recording on a Friday morning. And here it's 930. And you're six hours ahead, I believe?

Sara Gorry 02:25

Yes, it is. What 343 In the afternoon here.

Paula Shepherd 02:29

So we're both doing similar things at different times in different parts of the world, which I feel like is so, so cool. Well, I know that you have a really big story and how you got started, not just in writing, but your story and how you moved from the US to originally to Scotland. Yeah. Can you just tell us a little bit about that, because it blows me away when I hear about, you know, people that are from the US like finding love or even really wanting to explore and going elsewhere. So I'm, I need I need everyone to hear your story. Yeah,

Sara Gorry 03:09

so my husband, well, my no husband, he is originally from Scotland, obviously. And I am from the States. And because he is in a touring band, I would only really see him, when he would come over to the States, I would either fly out to if he was in Florida, or I think I went to go see him in Arizona. And then the times he was up in the area that I lived in, that's when we would see each other. I never travelled over to the UK to see him. So the problem was, when I was working my nine to five job, if I didn't have earned vacation time, I couldn't see him, which to me is a problem. You know, see why he's only in the area for a couple weeks a year and I'm not able to see him because I don't have vacation time like that. It just wasn't okay. And I would either have to call out sick or work I don't know an extra eight hours a week and extra 16 hours a week to make up for for time off if I didn't have the time to go see him. So it was just it never really sat right with me and even when I worked in the office before that, I just felt like I'm I'm not cut out for this. I'm not cut out for this office life this nine to five this box that I felt like I was in. So when I was moving over to the UK, so we could get married and settle over here. My job in the States said no, you can't you can't work abroad. We can put you on a leave of it. Since while you're over there, and then when you come back to apply for your, your visas, you can come back to work. And Bill was like, No, don't go back to work. You're a fantastic writer, you love writing, like Pursue your passion, do this 100% full time, we'll make it work, you're not going back. So that's

Paula Shepherd 05:22

a true visionary, right, like first, first of all, to have somebody that supports you in that way, but also because he is in a career that is incredibly creative and, and to have you be able to see him. I mean, when you have a relationship like that, where you tap in and you connect with somebody at such a deep level, the miles are a nuisance, aren't they? I mean, I can't imagine that my husband and I were doing the long distance thing from Maryland to Austin. And that was hard enough. So overseas, holy cow, I mean, you're dealing with, you know, much different timezone issue. And we were Oh, you know, be up until

Sara Gorry 06:05

3am. Until I would go to bed or FaceTime. You know, how you get those screen? hours your screen recap on your phone? Your screen time? Yeah, hours, I think the cap was the max we ever hit was like 23 hours a day for a day.

Paula Shepherd 06:22

Oh my gosh,

Sara Gorry 06:23

we just, we just left it on at night, went to bed woke up still there. Hi.

Paula Shepherd 06:29

So you made you took a risk. And this was really your first risk and which I love when I say the word risk. I don't mean that like, oh, gosh, I mean, like, that feels exciting to me to be able to take a risk and know like, I don't know what's gonna happen. But I know that I have this person by my side. And for some people, it may not be a person by their side, it may be I know that I have God on my side, I know that I have the universe on my side, right? Like whatever that happens to be where you have some semblance of like, I am supported in some way. And then you so you quit your job. You moved to the UK because your company wouldn't let you work abroad. And Bill was super supportive your now husband, and he wanted you to pursue your writing passion, instead of like coming to find a nine to five job just to pay the bills. So when you first started doing that, when you got into the industry, what did that look like as someone who was now in a new country, you know, away from your family away from everything that you knew? And you grew up with? What How did that feel? And how did you get started?

Sara Gorry 07:40

Honestly, it you would think it would feel like the scariest thing in the world. But it didn't. It felt fun. It felt exciting. It felt like a new adventure, it almost felt like we were starting from scratch. And it was pretty cool. And I came across an ad on Instagram for a copywriting course. And I'm not normally a person that like buys a course off of an ad. But there was something about this, that just felt right. So I ended up signing up for this copywriting course. And when Bill would be touring around the UK, I would go to him to go with him to the shows. And I'd sit backstage and I would while he's doing this thing, I'm focusing on this course I'm doing these writing exercises. I'm like taking in all this information. And it didn't. It didn't feel like I was it didn't feel like work. It didn't feel like schooling. It just felt like how did I not discover this like so long ago. So I started doing copywriting. And it was it was good. But there was something that still wasn't totally clicking for me. And I think it was the type of writing that I was doing. So when I did more of like the blog type work, that I wasn't necessarily selling something that felt a bit more aligned. And then Bill came to me and said, Hey, I've been trying to write my book for about 10 years, and I have 26 pages.

Paula Shepherd 09:26

So we haven't gotten as far as what you're telling me.

Sara Gorry 09:28

Do you think you could help? When I read the last page? I'm like, Babe, I can tell you're really sick of this because you were just kind of like, yeah, and then this fell through and I gave up and I'm like you gave up on what you were working on or you gave up on the book or I can tell you've just had enough of this. So yeah, when I started helping him out with that, it was like, No, this, this is it. This is what I love. And I actually kind of had a taste of that. When I worked in an office because one of the one of the hospitals I worked in, didn't have enough work, really to keep me busy for an eight hour day. So my boss asked me to sit down with each employee and learn what they do and write like a cross training manual manual. And they also had me rewrite like Office policies. So I kind of had a taste for it beforehand. And I love it.

Paula Shepherd 10:28

Oh, my gosh, I bet you tried several things until you found what your true. I don't say your true calling your niche. I think a lot of people do that backwards. Right? They they're, they're trying so desperately to figure out like, what am I good at? What is my niche, I have to niche down I have to niche down. And for you, you started very broadly that 11,000 foot view and went down the funnel until you figure it out and realise, wait, wait a minute, this is what I really love. And it just happened to be convenient that your husband wanted to write this book that he had been, you know, wrote 26 pages in a decade for. And since that time, I know that you've written for several people, and done several guest ghost writing. And that looks like not just memoirs, but also blogging in some capacity. What other ways could people learn about ghost writing? What other ways are people I guess utilising ghost writing?

Sara Gorry 11:32

ghostwriting can be social media captions, ghost writing can be newsletters. It's basically when somebody hires somebody else to write their content and whatever fashion that that be on their behalf. But it's using that person's words like, if you were to hire, hire me to write your blog or your book or what have you. I'm not putting my own thoughts. I'm not imparting my wisdom. I'm taking what you want to write, and crafting content in your voice, using your words, your thoughts, your ideas.

Paula Shepherd 12:14

In your voice, that's the most important thing here. Because I see so many people hire others to write for them. And they they're writing in their own way in their own tone. But they're not accounting for others intonation, the way that I mean, I have a specific way that I speak. I see it when I'm on video, I hear it when I'm on video, there are times where in my writing that you can probably feel me are equated quoting something. And I know that you said that your editor said that you're a chameleon when it comes to voice because and I would agree I see that in you're doing a series called write your story with Sarah Gauri, which I want you to tell us about that here in a few minutes. But is that a normal natural thing that comes to you? Or do you think that people can learn that skill?

Sara Gorry 13:12

I think it can be learned. But for me, it just, it just came very naturally. And I actually got to the point where I almost felt like I lost my own voice because I was just so easily able to adapt to other people's voices, that when I sat down to write something for myself, like, what do I even sound like?

Paula Shepherd 13:35

And you decided to start doing that through this series, which you know, I just mentioned it which I love the name because you know, it's catchy. Write your story with Sarah gory. Tell me what that is all about. Tell me why you started to do that. And, and the intention behind it.

Sara Gorry 13:51

So I actually came to you with that idea of running it by you. Somebody had posted some sort of content on LinkedIn and about I think it was a journalist who started interviewing people and I think their neighbourhood because they felt that everybody had a very powerful story and that they didn't have to be some sort of public figure or a celebrity that everybody's story matters. And when I saw that, it just kind of sparked like a light of inspiration for me and like, I love that. And part of my my series is not only do I help other people get their story out there. A lot of people don't understand what ghostwriting is or what the process looks like. So when I sit down with a business owner or an entrepreneur, and we focus on one little snippet, we create a short story about the either their business journey, something that happened in their life, whatever they want to talk about, we focus on this one little snapshot, and it gives them a taste of what it's like to work with a ghostwriter. And it also helps me because it helps me practice writing other people's voices. Because not not everybody has the same and it takes a lot of practice.

Paula Shepherd 15:17

And do you find the people that are working with you through the finders or write your story series? The they're open to letting people know that you were doing this for them, right? That's kind of a reciprocal, if you're going to share that this was me. And this is my story, and you're going to write it for me. But that's not the process when if somebody were to come to you, and they want you to, to help them create some kind of self help book or a memoir, that isn't the process. Correct?

Sara Gorry 15:49

Right. So this is, like you said, this is an understanding between me and the entrepreneur business owner, that they're letting people know that I'm writing the story on their behalf, it's so it's not essentially ghost writing, since we're unravelling who I am, but I am writing it for them. And if this were a situation where I were ghost writing a blog or a book, there would normally be some sort of nondisclosure agreement, saying that I'm not going to disclose that I'm writing their content, and they are putting it out there as their own. Some people find ghostwriting to be unethical. But that's not normally the case. It gets unethical if, like, if you came to me and said, Here, I want you to write me a book on this topic. Here's like a page of notes, write it. You're not sitting down with me, you're not giving me your ideas. You're not giving me your insight, your input your wisdom, you're having me essentially write a book on the topic, and it's going to come out in my voice. And if you were to slap your name on that and put that out there, that's where it becomes unethical. But ghostwriting a book, like if you came to me to write your book, we would sit down together, we would come up with topics, we would come out with the outline, I would interview you, you would tell me all of your thoughts, I would just put it in a coherent a coherent narrative. So all your work, I'm just helping,

Paula Shepherd 17:39

I think, I mean, for me, I was kind of blown away. When I first met you. And you said, I'm a ghostwriter. And I had really no idea what that actually meant. And so I think it's really important for people to understand one the confidentiality around it, and to the process is really about the person that you are writing for. And I you work primarily with verbal processors, right. And the way that you work with them complements their voice, it doesn't take over for it, you're listening to the things that you're saying. They're saying, you're asking for their stories, you're asking for recordings. And to me that feels like so much easier because I naturally speak and so many others do, and they really have that book inside of them. But they can't put pen to paper to make it happen, no matter how many courses how many times they've blocked off on the calendar, right? And then they they jumped from this idea to that idea, and it just doesn't come out. Even for the most organised people. I'm raising my hand here in a way that feels coherent. It's like squirrel squirrel, shiny object over here. And I what I love, especially about your series, which people can find that on LinkedIn, correct. That's where you're sharing that content? Yes. Okay. So definitely go check out what we're talking about here on Sarah Glory's, LinkedIn, I'll make sure that that link is in the show notes so that you can go check it out and see what we mean. But if you are a when I say a verbal processor, I mean somebody that speaks to communicate and process their thoughts, and feelings and emotions. A lot of people love the idea of journaling. I like that too. But I know that I can't get the words out of my out of my head and onto a piece of paper as quickly as I can or as articulate as I can when I am speaking. And that's not a curse. It can be used as a blessing, especially when you're partnering with someone like you Sarah, for ghostwriting. So I know that you know, we were talking about if they didn't write their book, so here's here's what i I wonder, and I wonder others out there that are listening think this like it? Am I really the author, if I didn't physically write the book if my fingers were not on the keyboard, is that book really mine? Did I really write it?

Sara Gorry 20:15

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they're all. They're all your ideas. I'm not like I said, I'm not imparting any of my own personal views or opinions or thoughts on it. Like, even if even if you didn't hire a ghostwriter, you would take your book and bring it to like a developmental editor who's going to have a look at it, and adjust the flow and make sure there are any missing pieces. You could hire a writing coach who would walk you through the process, like it's kind of the same concept, you're having a helping hand, writing your book, like you are writing it, even if your fingers don't touch the keyboards.

Paula Shepherd 20:59

That's my kind of writing.

Sara Gorry 21:03

Not I think my brain is in my fingertips, like I think in process through writing I, I tell my husband, when he asked me a question, I'm like, can I get back to you in three to five business days, we'll talk about how I want to work this like,

Paula Shepherd 21:18

you know, but I love that because it is, you know, I think for people who want to write to understand that this is an option, how many things have I passed up before because I could not fathom writing more than an essay. And if I did, I guarantee you it would make zero sense. And it would be an editor's nightmare. But this is more than I mean, to use an example, if I came to you and I was working with you. And we start out in the beginning, and you're asking me, my asking me questions, trying to get the idea of my tone. And and the words that I use and the words that I don't use? Is that it? Is it just at the beginning? Or is this more of a collaborative process throughout.

Sara Gorry 22:02

And it's definitely a collaborative process. Before we even start, I have a prep sheet, a questionnaire that we fill out, and we go through, and we hop on a call and we hash out the outline, we figure everything out, we sit down, and we have recorded interviews, where you tell me your story. And if I noticed you start trailing off really bad.

Paula Shepherd 22:31

People like me that

Sara Gorry 22:33

I mean, sometimes you're onto gold, and you're like, No, you know what, keep going, keep going keep going. But sometimes you're like, Okay, let's reel this back in. Stay on track. Yeah, I'll I'll take that I'll any content you might have had, like you said journaling, you might have a journal entry that you want to add into it, you might have blogs that you want to add into it, I'll take all that content, and craft your story. But as we go, if I noticed something needs a bit more detail, I'll send you a message. And you know, if you're more verbal than Fox or me your answer, you don't have to type that out. And then we have check ins as we go. So you can make sure that the storyline is what you want it to be your voices. How you want it. If you notice that I wrote something, and you'd be like, I actually wouldn't really say it that way. I might say it this way. That's where we can course correct as we go along. So it's not like I take your book and disappear for six months and hand it to him go here. Now you need to read this and make your changes.

Paula Shepherd 23:39

Oh, that leads me to the next like, really to my next thought in question when you're talking about the process. And I love that there's touchpoints all of the time, like, oh, I have this idea, or oh, I have this thing. And you know, or ooh, this idea isn't quite conveying let's dig into this a little bit more from your side. As you are helping them author this book. What is the timeline? It doesn't depend on the number of pages. I don't know anything about this. So and I'm going to pretend like people that are listening are hearing for the first time that there's such a thing as ghost writing, and the light bulbs are going off and they're like half. How do I do this? Like what does this process look like? How quickly can I get my book done?

Sara Gorry 24:23

It really depends on like you said how many words how many pages, I would say typically a memoir that's about 65 ish 1000 words. That's probably about six months or so.

Paula Shepherd 24:38

Okay, and for shorter self help slash business type books. What is that a shorter time frame? I know that this is it all is relative, right based on the information that's provided and things are going to get cut as you go along when you're writing your book, but are there for somebody that came to you said, I really want to write my book and have it go to an editor within three months. Is that possible? Depending on the number of words?

Sara Gorry 25:09

Yeah, definitely, we could do it three to four month turnaround time dependent, like you said, depending on how many words and how much content you might already have for me to go through and review and dig through. But yeah, a three to four month turnaround time is definitely feasible.

Paula Shepherd 25:29

Oh my gosh, so anybody that's listening in three to four months, three, let's just say three to six months, depending on what you have. You can have a book in your hand, that what is the process after they work with you? Because you're not doing all of the extra editing and the publishing?

Sara Gorry 25:48

No, I, I have a network of publishers and editors, I can refer people to

Paula Shepherd 25:55

amazing. And so is that a product? Is that something that you talk about at the beginning of the process with people so that they understand what the next step is? You know, and don't feel left to their own devices?

Sara Gorry 26:11

Oh, yeah. And even afterwards, if there are questions, or you went to one person, and you're like, I don't really know where to go from here. Like, I'm just because I finished reading your book doesn't mean I've disappeared off the face of the earth, you can always come to me with, with questions. But yes, before we even start, we talk about what I do. And I just realised about sounded, I do sound Canadian. The funniest thing and I know, I just like stopped mid sentence, the funniest thing, so many people say to me, you sound Canadian, or ask me, Are you from Canada? And I joke about it. I'm like, so I have a Scottish last name. I live in England. I'm from America, but I sound Canadian.

Paula Shepherd 26:58

I mean, that makes you special. It makes you unique.

Sara Gorry 27:00

I just caught that, like, I do have that.

Paula Shepherd 27:05

We're we're we're a very human show here. So we're not here to just talk about the nitty gritty of writing, but we want to know how, as a person, so apparently, you sound Canadian. And you are not. That's all. Well, okay, so if someone wants, they're listening right now, and they really want to work with you. Is there a place that they can go? How should they? How should they reach out to you to make that inquiry and see if this is a good fit?

Sara Gorry 27:35

I do have an application form on my website. And I think you might, you might have the link to my website. It's the book doc.co.uk. On the Contact page, there is an application to work with me.

Paula Shepherd 27:53

Amazing. So it's by application. So Sarah is only taking people that she feels like are a really good fit on both sides, which I absolutely love so much. I know that we've had conversations about people that have come to you that really weren't the right fit, and you referred them out to somebody else. I appreciate your integrity. And doing that.

Sara Gorry 28:17

Yes, absolutely. I just I want it to be the best quality on both ends. And if I feel like I can't deliver that, then I won't I'll I'll pass them on to a ghostwriter that I feel would be a really good fit for their project.

Paula Shepherd 28:33

I know you recently had someone who came to you and they were really excited about you potentially writing for them. And after you sat on it for a few days, you you decided it wasn't a right fit for you. It didn't align with your values and your beliefs and so you couldn't get behind it energetically. I, I want people that are listening to know that you get to choose who you work with in this capacity. And you should feel 100% comfortable when you're sharing the details of your story and your life with that person. And they should be asking you the questions just like Sarah mentioned, really interviewing you and making sure that they can tell your story in a way that honours it and honours your voice and articulates your message in a way that I can't even think of another word other than powerful but like really amplify that message. So make sure that when whether it's Sara or someone else that you are getting the very best quality and that you feel like on both sides that it's a good fit. So Sarah, I know that we've been working together for a while. I you know we you alluded to that earlier when we were chatting I would love for you to to just share your experience in the last several months of being part of the courage blueprint, you know, interacting with the community inside and, and the team,

Sara Gorry 30:15

I got to get back to you in three to five businesses couldn't help myself, I I don't even know if there are words, to express how huge this has been for me. I was at a point where I felt like I had, like, no real foundation. Like I said, I came over to the UK and just dove into this. And then all of a sudden, the world shut down and my husband's tours got cancelled, and all that potential income, we thought we were gonna have to support me jumping into this journey, like all of a sudden, changed. And it was like, Oh, my goodness, I don't even have time to build up this foundation that I need to go ahead and create a business. So when I found you, it was a game changer. And I remember that I was worried about being able to, you know, where's this money gonna come from? And all these thoughts going through my head, and I was like, I can't afford not to work with you. And I remember what I was clicking Sign on the contract I saw, was it 1111? Or 444? They remember Yeah. And I was like, this is this isn't, I have to do that. And it's just been amazing, like, your support and the support of the community, like not ready to go?

Paula Shepherd 31:58

Well, we don't ever let anyone go, everyone, everyone continues to be family. And, Sarah, you've you've made such leaps and bounds just in your journey, you have random people reaching out to you on LinkedIn, on your website, you had one on your old website that somebody reached out to you and and this is the possibilities are so endless, even for people who are verbal processors like I am, and and really, you are very introverted, and you're not shy about that. So I love how you've taken some really big steps out and shared your story, your personal story in ways that you haven't before? You know, before we jumped on this, this conversation, I asked you, is there anything that's off limits? Is there anything that you said in your questionnaire? Is there anything that we've talked about that you don't want to share? And you said, Nope, anything that's on there is free game. And that in and of itself, is massive, massive, so anyone that's looking to work with someone who has invested in themselves, and not just had great, you know, great wins from a financial perspective, but really, from a personal perspective, and being able to speak up and advocate for yourself and be self led and take radical responsibility, then Sara is absolutely your person. So as we're wrapping up this episode, what is one key nugget of goodness, some golden nugget of goodness that you can leave our listeners with when it comes to their writing.

Sara Gorry 33:43

This is what I say to people who say I've got I've got a word count by the end of this week, and I'm feeling stuck. And you know what, just write anything. I don't even this is what I do. Sometimes when I get stuck. I will start and say I have no idea what I'm going to write. But I'm going to start this anyway. And the words just this start flowing. And if they don't, you can memo it in your phone. That sounds just transcribe it. There. You start getting your workouts.

Paula Shepherd 34:18

I love it word. That's it right there. The audio note it, put it in your phone. I'm the crazy lady that's walking around with my phone and talking in the neighbourhood. People are wondering what I'm doing with my phone, I'm sure. But I love that tip. So just write put the pen to paper. Whatever comes out comes out. And if you don't like putting pen to paper, start just talking it out in audio form. Yep. Absolutely. Awesome. Sarah, thank you so much for being here as a guest. I just am so proud of you. And more than that I am so excited for the people that are being featured on write your story of Sarah I'm so excited for the people that you're working with, and the people that are about to work with you. They have no idea how monumental that opportunity is going to be and how you're going to help bring their story to life and make an even bigger impact in this world. So thank you.

Sara Gorry 35:18

Thank you.

Paula Shepherd 35:20

All right. Until next week, have a great one. Thank you for listening to this episode of The confidence session. I know there are hundreds of 1000s of podcasts. And I'm so grateful that you chose to spend your time today with me. Head on over to be fearless with paula.com forward slash podcast to check out the show notes from today's episode and grab links to all the amazing goodies mentioned today. Also, if you love this episode, as much as I love making it, make sure you don't miss any future ones by hitting the subscribe button right now. See you next time.

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